I saw this on Rivero's Whatreallyhappened site, followed the link and was shocked, truly shocked.
Stop the ISM
Needless to say it gives Muslims Against Sharia a run for their money!!
These guys offer a $25,000 reward to the locations of humanitarian workers with the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) in Gaza - so the IDF can KILL them!! One of the men on their 'hit' list is the Italian, VITTORIO ARRIGONI, who is also involved in the Free Gaza group.
So, I wondered - this Kaplan fellow - who is he? Could he be just some complete and utter freak, with little influence? Seems not:
Kaplan writes for Front Page Magazine, which is certainly not considered to be out in the 'fringes'. No, it's considered a respectable Jewish Rag. From the link above, you can see Mr. Kaplan's bio and enjoy the fact that not only does this man order 'hits' on folks, but he also writes for the Israeli National News, and hold on now.... The Canada Free Press!! That's right folks. I had thought the name sounded familiar.
Here's the bio from the site (in case you can't bring yourself to click on FPM:
Lee Kaplan
Lee Kaplan is an undercover investigative journalist and a contributor to Front Page Magazine. He is also a regular columnist for the Israel National News and Canada Free Press and a senior intelligence analyst and communications director for the Northeast Intelligence Network. He heads the organizations Defending America for Knowledge and Action (DAFKA) and Stop the ISM. He has been interviewed on over one hundred nationally and internationally syndicated radio shows and been a guest on Fox Cable TV’s Dayside with Linda Vester and Bill O’Reilly’s The Factor. He is a guest every Tuesday on the Jim Kirkwood Show on Utah's K-Talk Radio am630. He is currently working on a book about America's colleges in the War on Terror and the International Solidarity Movement.
Okay - isn't this against the law? I would imagine that putting up a reward for the murder of someone is illegal? Perhaps not in some lands, but certainly it must be in the US and Canada? Where is the ADL in all of this? Why aren't the screaming from the rooftops? How is this different than the 'price on Rushdie's head'? Answer: it isn't.
So, this man is interviewed in the MAINSTREAM MEDIA! If this doesn't show the bias of these talking heads and their puppet masters I don't know what does.
Shame on Canada Free Press to ever allow this instigator air time - without at least letting readers know from what radical stance this man is advocating.
Here's just a little taste of what you can find at this site operated by Mr. Kaplan (shame on him):
ALERT THE IDF MILITARY TO TARGET ISM
Number to call if you can pinpoint the locations of Hamas with their ISM members with them. From the US call 011-972-2-5839749. From other countries drop the 011. Help us neutralize the ISM that is now definitely a part of Hamas since the war began.
Hmmm since two can play at the 'victim' game why not alert the CHRC to this dude? Let's get this ALL out in the air. Mind you, I don't want him silenced - in fact I'd like everyone to know what kind of disgusting behaviour this Lee Kaplan is involved in - that way when the sleeping public sees him they know what he REALLY is.
And he ain't an Honest Broker.
**********
Okay, that was the original post.
Lee responded and I've decided to repost this whole thing. Oddly I get many hits looking at this post I did about Lee.
I don't like anyone who advocates for any ideology which excuses violence. My concern has alway been about the innocent effected by the actions of warmongers on both and all sides of a conflict.
According to Lee, I'm an anarchist, and need to grow up... okies.
Anyone wanting to chat with Lee - who seems also to think I won't print his 'comment' is free to do so here. And of course they are also free to go and read Lee, learn all about Lee to their hearts content!
;)
Oh, and here is the link to the original, Who is Lee Kaplan?
Oh, and what the heck - I'll throw a link to this one up too, where Lee has graced us previously with his presence! I'm all blushing!!
The Other Lee Piece
39 comments:
I'm not as wealthy as Kaplan but I'll offer ten bucks to anyone who can find his address and send him a turd in the mail.
Mind you, this isn't open ended. I'm going to cap it at $100, which makes it the first ten. Not that that should stop any publicly-minded citizens from going ahead and sending him some excreta just for the sheer rightness of it.
if lee kaplan gets msm air time, then one knows with certainty we are the radicals we denounce!
shit in the mail, now there is a thought?
If either of you want to see Lee's comments click on the original article's link. He's been busy.
It's the usual hasbara PR campaign, you know: Israel never used phosphorous bombs, Palestinians are all terrorists yada yada yada...
I will respong to him on the original article and try to get him to follow protocol here and at least post his musings on the current thread...
He's not very friendly.
I am moving the discussion to this posting, since it is newer and not everyone will want to continually click on the old one from January.
Lee, if you are wanting to chat here with all us fine folks - please do so in this section!
Below is your answer to my post to you:
Lee Kaplan said...
Maggie-
I have responded to your posting in the areas below after the parenthesis with my initials (LK).
Hello Lee,
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on a few things.
(LK) No problem there. However, if your disagreements are based on errorneous or untrue information, it is unfortunate for you and your readers. The links you ahve to the right are all ISM affiliates that ultimately want Israel dismantled as a Jewish state. So off the bat, you get information from organizations that are less than truthful and use the word "peace" as subterfuge to make war on Israel.--
Your remark at the end of the post "Let's see if you print this", assumes that I censor opinions which I don't agree with. Nothing could be further from the truth, Lee.
(LK) Glad to hear it. Your colleagues at the links on right all censor material and rely on smears (that is how you came to mention me, no? I advocate for murder? Not so).
I'm glad you stopped by actually. For I was truly shocked at your website - it is hateful beyond words. This is sad, because the last thing anyone needs is more bigotted hatred in this world.
(LK) "The last thing needed is more bigoted hatred in the world."
Obviously you never read the Hamas Charter (or the PLO one either) both of which call for the annihilation of Israel, the Hamas one calling for the annihilation of world Jewry. ISM supports Hizballah that also calls for annihilation of word's Jews. I can suggest here you are misinformed and assume because these people claim they are "peace activists" instead of human shields for terror groups that they want peace. I suggest you do some intelligent research and not take them for their word:
http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/ISM_info.htm
http://www.memri.org (Watch daily Palestinian children's programming and religious fare calling for the extrmination of Jews, no such fare exists in Israeli media).
While Hamas as employed rather questionable tactics at times, so has everyone else Lee.
(LK) Such a tactic reveals abysmal ignorance of Hamas and engages in equivalency to justify terror. Let me see you write in here that Hamas firing missiles on schools in Sderot caused OpPeration Cast Lead then maybe I can beleive you are sincere. None of your allies has openly said the missiles fired on Israel by Hamas must stop.--
There is no one group, or ethnicity which has corner of the market on being assholes - sad but true.
(LK) Again, the IDF protects Israeli women and children. Hamas engges in terror attacks on Israelis. ISM in private cal Hamas actions legitimate resistance and encourage the real bigotry and violence.
By advocating murder - which you did with your 25,000$ reward - you, as a Jew, are maligning all the rest.
Hamas and all the Arab allies of the ISM and PLO pay terrorists to murder Jews. I offered information in war time to aid the IDF to target people who were aiding the heads of terror groups as human shields. This is to protect Israelis and Jews.heir own admission those who were given a bounty for information were aiding the heads of Hamas--bigots and murderers. In ar time this is perfectly legal. By the way, if those with a price on their heads felt threatened, they could have gone home as Vittorio Arrigoni's embassy told him to do, to leave Gaza. "Murder" is hyperbole for requesting information to get the ISMers out of a combat zone where they assist potentially harming Israeli soldiers. It was a ISM activsit by the way, who gave us great information to claim the reward, but sadly just as the war ended.
Just as when some nutbar Imam, or whacko paster advocates ill will against others. All this does is fuel more resentment and offer a target to back up the hatred.
(LK) LIke I said, read the Hamas Charter, watch PA sermons at MEMRI.org. Abbas jsut said Israel cannot exist as a Jewish state and he named streets after suicide bombers. Are you naive of these things or do you intend to obfuscate Arab bigtory and anti-Semitism against Israel's Jews?--
Also, you seem say Hamas is firing rockets into Kindergartens in Sderot - what I understand is that the majority of the rocket fire (over 99% of which hits NOTHING) is due to quite radical factions, often aligned more with FATAH than Hamas.
(LK) Perhaps this is why your view is so skewed. Israel deported all Jews from Gaza. 8,00o missiles fired on sderot and Ashkelon since then. May Jews killed, including 4 year-old Afik Zahavi. Homes destroyed, businesses, schools. 15 seconds to get to a shelter. Just two weeks ago a father of two killed driging to work. Here:
learn something: http://www.sderotmedia.com/
Not that it really matters as these rockets are more of and inconvenience than any real threat.
(LK) Statement above is ignorant and cruel. Men, women and children killed by them, Arabs and Jews alike. Now who is suborning murder?
I just tried to stop the human shields who aid the murderers. You excuse them completely.
Now, the rockets fired by Israel, the phosphorous bombs and extrajudicial assassination bring nothing but more hatred and insecurity to the Israeli populace.
(LK) It has been proven Israel did not use phosphorous despite false accusations. Israel targets the Hamas leadership so as to avoid "innocent civilian" casualties. According to you, the leaders of Hamas shuld be left alone, hence you are again suborning murder. Is this being cagey or are you just following the propaganda dished out by your friends?
The stealing of land and water resources furthers this problem - as it was intended to - as Israel cannot survive in her current incarnation without the terrorism she herself has invented.
(LK) Israel has stolen no land. Israel was created by UN. Israel lost land to Jordan and Egypt in 1948 that it regained in 1967. Israel has offered 50% of territory it legally controls to make peace. Arabs still insist Israel cannot exist at all. Terrorism was not invented by Israel. You spout mindless rhetoric and apparently refuse to research historical facts. You suborn murder as "resistance" I bet also. Israel is the only non-apartheid state in the region with 20% population Arabs with equal rights, democracy. The PA and Hamas require Shariah Law. Please stop repeating the pat lines and get your facts straight.
It is very sad for me, with the mixed background I have to see the monsters guiding Israel to her certain destruction.
(LK) If you cannot see the monsters are Hamas and the PLO, even hurting Arabs, then you are being deceptive at best. Israel will survive, but a Palestinian state will never be because it is predicated on wiping the Jewish state out and foreigners like you encourage this under twisted ideas of being progressive (Or ignorant)
Bitch all you want Lee - but until all people realise that underneath it all we are ONE BIG FAMILY of HUMANS, this will never end.
Go read the Hamas charter, available at Cornell University, then get back to me. You support bigotry murder and fascism then cynically claim peace activism.
Thanks though for dropping in. Please do so again when you have your new and improved (taken out the clearly illegal elements) site all ready - heck I might even link it in the sidebar!!
(LK) I'll do that. and if you seriously have no ulterior motives I'll expect to see that. Meanwhile, show your sincerity and link to www.dafka.org . Who knows? You might learn you've been aiding the wrong side that doesn't want peace, democracy or the best for all, but will claim it does to act as human shields for murders. Do visit the sites I recommended. Note also how your links always make ad hominem attacks on me and cannot carry on a useful debate as done here...
Cheers and have a great weekend.
*****
I will answer your points later. It's sunny and I have way more fun stuff to do than write on my blog today.
The garden awaits!
Oh, and Lee - I will not be linking to MEMRI. It has been thoroughly debunked as a propaganda tool of the right wing cabal currently running the land of Israel and the US.
memri
LOL!
Ha ha ha, 'deceptive', I love it. Hey Lee, you racist scumbag! Go bugger yourself!
Sorry Buff, whilst I am capable of genteel conversation, I really couldn't be fagged when it comes to shitheads defending the indefensible.
"I'm not as wealthy as Kaplan but I'll offer ten bucks to anyone who can find his address and send him a turd in the mail."
AH, YES...THE GENTLEMAN ABOVE IS CLEARLY A DEEP THINKER AND HAS A GRASP OF THE GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION VIS-A-vIS THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN QUESTION. TURDS IN THE MAIL AND SUPPORT FOR JEW-KILLERS. MAGGIE, YOU BRING IN A CLASS AUDIENCE CLEARLY...
Ah, AND THIS FROM YOU,MAGGIE, OF ALL PEOPLE:
"I will not be linking to MEMRI. It has been thoroughly debunked as a propaganda tool of the right wing cabal currently running the land of Israel and the US."
THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED BY WHOM? MEMRI REPLAYS ARAB TELEIVSION SHOWS FROM THE ARAB COUNTRIES AND THE PA. ACCORDING TO YOU THEN ALL THE ARABS SHOWS ARE PROPAGANDA CREATED BY ISRAEL CALLING FOR THE MURDER OF JEWS? HAVE YOU WATCHED THE VIDEOS ON THE MEMRI SITE? THIS IS LIKE THE ARABS CLAIMING THE HOLOCAUST FILMS TAKEN BY THE GERMANS WERE CREATED BY THE JEWS.
PLEASE, MAGGIE,
EVEN YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT ONE, NOW DO YOU?
YOU MENTIONED YESTERDAY ACCUSATIONS OF ISRAEL STEALING PALESTINIAN WATER. ISRAEL PROVIDES ALL THE WATER FOR GAZA AND THE WEST BANK. THE ARABS HAVE NO INFRASTRUCTURE FOR WATER SUPPLY OTHER THAN WHAT ISRAEL TURNS OVER TO THEM.THIS IS ANOTHER DAMNABLE LIE BY THE TOTALITARIANS WHO HAVE A STAKE IN LYING. WHY ARE YOU ROILING THE WAR AGAINST ISRAEL TO DESTROY THE JEWISH STATE, MAGGIE?
THE REASON YOUR FRIENDS WRITE OF TURDS IN THE MAIL IS BECAUSE THEY GET IRRITATED WHEN FACED WITH THE TRUTH. I HAVE NO PROBLEM DEBATING AND EDUCATING THOSE WHO ARE WILLING TO LEARN>. BUT TO REPEAT LIES THEN HURL INSULTS LIKE TEENY BOPPERS DOES BECOME WASTEFUL OF MY TIME>>>
"RACIST SCUMBAG, EH?"
GO READ THE HAMAS CHARTER AND THE PLO CHARTER. GO WATCH THEIR TELEVISION MEDIA AND READ THEIR NEWSPAPERS IN ARABIC> YOU ARE BETTING ON THE BIGGEST RACISTS IN THE WORLD. I SUPPORT A PLURALISTIC STATE WHERE ALL RACES HAVE EQUAL RIGHT (THAT"S WHY BAHAI'S HAVE WORLD HEADQUARTERS IN ISRAEL). YOU SUPPORT ARAB SUPREMISTS AND MUSLIM TOTALITAIRANS> PALESTINIANS PERSECUTE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS. LET"S BE FRANK, YOUR REAL HATRED IS FOR THE JEWS< AND BY CALLING ME RACIST YOU TRY TO DEFLECT YOUR OWN SMELLY BEHAVIOR.YOU"RE NOT PEACE ACTIVISTS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TALK OF HURLING FECES AND SUPPORTING THE RACISTS IN HAMAS.
MAGGIE< THERE"S STILL TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP AND LEARN SOMETHING< THAT YOUR FRIENDS HERE ARE NOT EDUCATED AND CARING PEOPLE< BUT LITTLE STINKY WANNABE REVOLUTIONARIES AND ANARCHISTS. THEY REALLY DON'T WANT PEACE. ANYONE WHO CAN WATCH PA TV AND DECLAREE IT ISRAELI PROPAGADA IS A MENTAL CASE> GO WATCH FARFUR, THE MICKEY MOUSE CLONE ON HAMAS TV....
Holy schmolly, Lee - Stop Screaming.
Everyone here his entitled to their opinion - even you.
I am not roiling(sic)? to destroy the 'Jewish' state. Israel's leaders are doing a fine job of that themselves - and doing in their nations soul at the same time.
I am thankful there are many Jews who don't support the apartheid policies of the Israeli Admninstration. Unlike you perhaps they see what their government is doing and they clearly see how wrong it is.
I also don't 'support' Hamas, for to me some of their tactics border on being just as bad as Israels - though without the big bang since they don't have such lovely weaponry given to them by their sugar Daddy the US. Targetting innocents is wrong - no matter who is doing it Lee.
Now Lee, can you really, I mean really - with a straight face and all - say that Israel has NOT stolen land??? Well then, you are clearly unable to read and undertand international law, Lee.
Take a look at the Guardian map - or goodness me are they are self-haters and anti-semties too???
Really Lee - you are clearly the exact counterpart to the radical Islamist. No different.
Sad, really.
What do you propose? A one state solution? Where all peoples have the same rights? An Israel where her native inhabitants can reclaim what was taken from them in 48? Compensation for their pains and suffering? Or do you propose the slow ethnic cleaning which is occuring? Or perhaps you'd like to see a final solution?
Now, about Memri - they certainly have been caught numerous times mis-translating and taking much out of context to serve their own agenda. So, no I won't link to them here. You can on your blog - but I won't, thanks very much.
There is no need for personal insults directed at me either - I've been pretty darn cordial to you since you've shown up - screaming.
Play nice Lee - or don't play at all.
Did you notice that mr kaplan is an extremist?
the anger, the all capitals, whoa!
Didn't I just read, hmmm, what news organization was it, something about the way memri interprets things, didn't want to rely on them for factual info.
memri, an organization with an agenda, to create hatred towards the arab population.
glad you directed Mr Kaplan to the map, but do you think he will look at it?
Not likely.
Will he acknowledge that Israel heeds no international laws?
No.
Because Israel is only beholding to gods law, right, or at least that is the propaganda on the ground.
God said the land is theirs, god said this and god said that.
Baloney!
All this God said stuff has turned rational people into irrational fools.
All this God stuff has turned too many Israelis into extremists, no different then any others indoctrinated by god.
Indeed Penny - The G-d stuff has got to go. Seriously.
I don't think Lee really wants a civil discussion. Where both sides can admit their own failings and work to improve - as I am sure Lee sees no failings on the part of the rabid warmongering fanatical racist bigotted Likudniks/UberZionists.
Oh well. C'est la vie!!
You know Lee - I was thinking... I could almost support a site called Stop the 'ism' if that 'ism' was racism, zionism, nazism, communism, capitalism ... get it???
jerkism? liarism?
Okay now I'm being silly aren't I?
*snicker*
MAGGIE-CAPITALS ARE USED TO DISTINGUSIH WHAT I WRITE FROM WHAT YOU WRITE, NOT SCREAMING. SAVES TIME.
NOW, AS FOR YOUR COMMENTS: I"LL BE GLAD TO HAVE A CIVIL DISCUSSION WITH YOU ANY DAY AND TO PROVE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT ISRAEL ARE NOT ONLY WRONG, BUT THAT YOU INDEED DO SUPPORT HAMAS WITH YOUR ACTIONS (EVEN IF INVOLUNARILY). I NOTE YOUR FRIENDS SUGGEST SENDING ME FECES BY MAIL AND THAT GETS PUBLISHED HERE, BUT BECAUSE I .WROTE IN CAPS I AM "NOT FRIENDLY"
REGARDING MEMRI:-SHOW ME YOUR PROOF OF MISTRANSLATIONS-ALSO, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT ALL OF THOSE VIDEOS OF PA TV EXHORTING TO KILL JEWS. THE OFFICAIL PA SERMONS, THE SERIES HORSEMAN WITHOUT A HORSE< ETC .ARE MISTRANSLATED? PLEASE! EVEN YOU ARE NOT SO GULLIBLE. YOU SAID YOU'D POST A LINK TO MY SITE; ONE AGAINST 20 IN YOUR LINKS SECTION I CAN HANDLE IF YOU WANT TO ENGAGE IN HONEST DEBATE HERE. BTW, NARROWING THINGS DOWN TO
"THEIR LAND WAS STOLEN IN 1948" IS DISHONEST. YES. ISRAEL'S LAND WAS NOT STOLEN BUT ACTUALLY IS THEIRS BY INTERNATIONAL LAW. I'LL BE GLAD TO DISCUSS WITH YOU WHY. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS SEEM TO LIKE TO VALIDATE PROPAGANDA WITHOUT FACING THE FACTS AND THEN ROIL THIS CONFLICT FOREVER, THEN RESORT TO AD HOMIEM ATTACKS OR VULGAR SUGGESTIONS. I"M USED TO IT WHEN DEALING WITH ANTI-SEMITES AND ISRAEL HATERS WHO ARE MORE INTERESTED IN GROUPTHINK THAN REAL PEACE. I'M HAPPY TO SEE YOU CONDEMN HAMAS AS A TERRORIST GROUP SINCE YOUR LINKED TO ALLIES MOSTLY SUPPORT HAMAS OPENLY SUCH AS URUKUNET WHO YOU YOURSELF PROMOTED. GO READ THE HAMAS CHARTER STILL THOUGH, IT MIGHT OPEN YOUR EYES...IF YOU WANT FUTURE DISCUSSIONS IN HERE, I"M GAME IF PEOPLE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LEARNING< BUT NOT ABOUT SLOGANEERING AND MAKING STATEMENTS NOT BACKED UP BY THE FACTS.
BTW, MAGGIE--
THE PFLP (PART FO THE PLO SECOND LARGEST FACTION)IS OPENLY COMMUNIST WHICH YOU SAY YOU DO NOT SUPPORT. THEY ARE CLOSE ALLIES WITH THE ISM THAT IS PRIOMARLIY COMMUNIST BUT ALSO SUPPORTS HAMAS.
DID YOU KNOW THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP WERE NAZI ALLIES IN WORLD WAR II? MAYBE YOUR READERS IN HERE WOULD LIKE TO LEARN SOME FACTS FOR ONCE INSTEAD OF REPEATING PROPAGANDA ABOUT ISRAEL? CAN YOU TAKE THE HEAT?
PRIMARILY---TYPO ABOVE. I USUALLY RELY ON A COPYREADER TO CATCH TYPOS SO YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAR WITH SOME OF THEM. AND DON"T WORRY. I"M NOT ANGRY OR AN EXTREMIST, I JSUT DON'T LIKE TOTALITARIANS AND ANTI-SEMITES, WANNABE COMMUNISTS AND ANARCHISTS WHO MASQUERADE AS PEACE ACTIVSTS.
MAGGIE-
I MISSED THIS ABOVE
"I don't think Lee really wants a civil discussion. Where both sides can admit their own failings and work to improve - as I am sure Lee sees no failings on the part of the rabid warmongering fanatical racist bigotted Likudniks/UberZionists."
PLEASE. I AM UP FOR A DEBATE WITH FACTS AND MATURITY. YOU TRY TO PREVENT A DEBATE BY ACCUSING ME OF NOT WANTING ONE THEN STATE THAT WHATEVER I WILL SAY IS BASED ON COMMENTS OF FANATICS. PRETTY CHEAP SHOT, DEAR. YES< I WILL GALDLY DEBATE YOU IF YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO TRUTHFULLY POST WHAT I WRITE. AS FOR FANATICS, YOUR SIDE IS THE OE THT SUPPORTS HATRED OF JEWS IN THE REGION. AS WELL AS MURDERING ISRAELIS. SHOW ME ONE TERRORIST ARRESTED AND INCARCERATED BY THE PA IN THE LAST 15 YEARS AS CALLED FOR BY OSLO FOR EXAMPLE...NO MORE AD HOMINEM ATTACKS FROM YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS. CAN YOU HANDLE IT?
hey maggie: lee is big on transferal, he says others are doing what he is doing,
watch, I'll show you and you too Lee, ok?
he says he is using cap locks to differentiate, but he is using cap locks to tirade, he could simply quote others, but chooses not to.
"MAGGIE-CAPITALS ARE USED TO DISTINGUSIH WHAT I WRITE FROM WHAT YOU WRITE, NOT SCREAMING. SAVES TIME."
as if we can't read his name at the top of his replies?
How denigrating is that?
maggie notes and rightly I may add that Lee is not interested in debate.
Well, all capitals aside.
I'll quote Lee here
"PLEASE. I AM UP FOR A DEBATE WITH FACTS AND MATURITY. YOU TRY TO PREVENT A DEBATE BY ACCUSING ME OF NOT WANTING ONE"
Yet everything he has spouted in all it's glorious capitals is here to be read by anyone, so what is his point, I don't know.
Then Lee goes further with this
".NO MORE AD HOMINEM ATTACKS FROM YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS. CAN YOU HANDLE IT?"
I haven't seen anyone use ad hominem attacks, certainly not myself.
But Mr Kaplan is Mr ad hominem himself!
and I quote:"YOUR SIDE IS THE OE THT SUPPORTS HATRED OF JEWS IN THE REGION. AS WELL AS MURDERING ISRAELIS."
"YOU SUPPORT ARAB SUPREMISTS AND MUSLIM TOTALITAIRANS"
". I"M USED TO IT WHEN DEALING WITH ANTI-SEMITES AND ISRAEL HATERS WHO ARE MORE INTERESTED IN GROUPTHINK THAN REAL PEACE. "
Holy ad hominem attack after attack after attack.
An ad hominem consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.
So we see Lee Kaplan has ad hominem useage down to a science!
Then his transferance! everything he accuses others of he is infact guilty of, and he is the only guilty party.
I imagine his website is a complete bore upon reading this drivel, devoid of rational thought, or facts, but filled with emotional rhetoric, ideal for people who don't want to think just react, and be all outraged, like Lee himself.
Take it easy Lee, it is bad for the heart ya know!
good god....
well... the first thing I'd like to say Lee, I that no one likes yelling around here - so lay off the bloody caps will ya? You've been asked nicely once.
I think we are all quite functional enough to realise when your name is at the top of the post it's you spouting.
Now, Penny has also spent some time being very nice to you -pointing out the error of your ways in posting here. We would all appreciate it if you can constrain yourself, at least a little.
Ad hominen is not tolerated. If you would like to post a link to any article you wish to site, please do so. Please do not imply that people here hate Jews or are simply anti-semites - that's old tired and well - boring.
Memri has mistranslated many items - I believe (I will look later) that the Mickey Mouse scandal was one such intstance. Well at least you haven't quoted the 'wipe off the map' or 'drive them into the Sea' crapola yet. Good on you.
As far as pushing folk into the sea and wiping from the map goes though Israel is doing a good job of this to the native inhabitants of Palestine (which of course included Jews, Muslims, Christians and -omg- NON believers too!!). Gaza is a prison camp - there is no other way to describe it - tell us all Lee, do you agree with Operation Cast Lead and Do YOU Lee, agree with the siege on Gaza?
Do you believe it is right to subjugate others?
Be careful Lee, how you answer. For the Jews have been subjugated, persecuted and generally treated 'not so nice' but that is NO justification to do it to others.
So, Lee - no adhominens here - we are asking you direct questions. You, not whomever flag you are waving (IOW I could care less what Likud says on paper their actions speak far louder (cluster bombing and slow genocide)- vice versa who gives a shit what Hamas says on paper their actions - a 98% reduction in rocket fire - speak volumes.
You speak of facts Lee - provide some. Real ones. Don't be a parrot to Mr. Regev. We all see through that.
It is not anti Canadian to criticise the actions of my government - it is not anti-American to be vocal of what the American Admins do - nor is it anti-semetic to speak out about Israel's shear failures to deal with her neighbours honourably.
Now, Lee, if you can - if it is witin you, respond without caps, and in a nice way.
Thanks.
Otherwise NO one will read them. We don't like shouting.
Hey Buff and Pen,
Don't you love people who use the caps-lock key? A clear sign of a disordered mind. But don't let me stop you Lee! Go nuts! Feel free to caps-lock yourself into a lather. And we'll all laugh our heads off.
("Hmm..." thinks Lee, "Does that mean I should or shouldn't type with the caps-lock on? If I do it to spite him I'll be doing what he says. And I if don't, he'll make me look like an idiot." Ha ha ha, I call this 'The Arsehole's Dilemma')
And not that I read all your shite (or any of it actually), but since we're on the subject of racism, you may fling that word about as soon as you acknowledge the fundamental racist us-and-them nature of your own Jewish identity. Otherwise I got no time for the usual idiotic parlour game of Jews declaring that everyone else is racist. Between us-and-them and one-with-the-universe, only one of them is worth a pinch of shit. Just in case that has you scratching your head, the former is you.
But whatever... be that self-impressed git, bang the table, type in caps-lock, demand the we acknowledge your rightness. We'll laugh in your face mate. Or crack a fart. It's about all a racist git like you is worth.
Maggie--
Some questions for you:
An interesting questionnaire for Palestinian Advocates.
If you are so sure that "Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history," I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine :
1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
9. What was the language of the country of Palestine ?
10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?
11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.
12. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?
You are lamenting the "low sinking" of a "once proud" nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that "nation" proud and what was it so proud of?
And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call "Palestinians" are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?
I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day "Palestinians" to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won't work here.
The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it "the Palestinian people," and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the "West Bank" and Gaza, respectively?
The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less claim to nationhood than that Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so-called "Palestinians" have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel and in my book that is not sufficient to consider them a nation" -- or anything else except what they really are: a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled.
In fact, there is only one way to achieve peace in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side should, pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited on it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and accepting Israel's ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.
That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning?
Note I didn't write in caps because apparently you consider it "yelling" when it is just a way to separate your comments from mine...
You maintain the children's shows with Farfur presented by Hamas were
"mistranslated." How so? IF I can prove to you they were not mistranslated what would you say?
When are you posting links to my websites as promised?
I'm interested to hear your comments on these Arab videos:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=hamas+charter+%2B+calls+to+exterminate+the+Jews&sa=N&tab=wv&um=1#q=Gaza+%2B+graduation+ceremony&hl=en&emb=0
Lee Kaplans questions are largely bogus, because as Mr. Kaplan knows, the great powers, the empires went through the countries, remaking them in their own ideal, like the US has done to Iraq.
This doesn't make them any less legitimate countries, what it does demonstrate is that big powers make a mess of everything.
We know that Palestine existed with defineable borders, because, when the UN gave Israel it's share, after much lobbying and lots of terrorism, they gave Israel defined borders (though Israel ignores them) within the borders of Palestine.
Lee I am going to find a documentary I know of, chock full of maps of Palestine, perhaps you will learn something, but not likely?
For Mr.Kaplan
Imperial GeographyThe battle over Palestine is one of the most intensely geographic conflicts in the world. Yet most people know nothing of the area and what factors make it so intensely important to the imperialist powers. David Barsamian takes a look at the maps to provide a sweeping history of the current and historic forces that are shaping the so-called "Holy Land," sacred to three of the worlds great religions, a land drenched not with holy water but holy oil.
Just a quickie - I never promised to put up any of your links Lee - I said I 'might' whack it up after you've got it going... but maybe not. I would of course have to make a new header: Twilight Zone perhaps? If I do stick yours up there, I may as well add that of the JDL too - since you guys could be brothers!
Now, all of your questions are actually irrelevant. It really matters not what happened 100, or even 60 or 30 years ago. What matters now - it NOW. How will this end? How should it end?
Most fair minded folk see a two state solution, but this requires that Israel give back the land she has stolen, through various nefarious means. I am beginning to believe this to be impossible, which of course leaves only a one state solution - again a problem for the supremicist like yourself - what to do with all those pesky Arabs? If Israel, truly wishes to be a secular democracy (which she currently isn't) then she has a mega demographic problem on her hands with the absorbtion of millions of Palestinians into the Israeli fold. It would cause problems for her immigration, based on ethnicity, problems all around.
So, Lee - what final solution do you have to the 'Palestinian Question'???
(Careful how you channel there Lee... your colours show loud and clear)
One more thing - do you have reading comprehension problems? You acuse me of all sorts of 'beliefs' that I have nowhere espoused. If you are going to say I said something - then quote it - don't you DARE put words into my mouth which I did not say. Don't insinuate either.
I'll of course try not to do this to you either. You make it easy (psst - I've got 25,000$ buck for ya if you rat out a fellow human!!). That's pretty clear sweetie.
Penny, Maggie--
Apparently you CANNOT answer the questions I posed to you. Penny;'s response seems to be "Facts don't matter, I beleive what I want."
Now, Maggie, you claim Israel stole Palestinian land by nefarious means and was delegated to firm borders. You conveiently left out that:
There was a Jewish presence in Israel for 5,000 years, proven by archaeological evidence. This aside, the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate (no different than British promises to the Arabs in the area to fight the Turks)designated today's Israel and Jordan as the Jewish state. In the end, the Brits screwed the Jews and gave Jordan to the Hashemite clan along with Iraq to placate the House of Saud. Those borders you claim were ignored by Israel were in fact immediately invaded by five Arab states that claimed they would wipe Israel off the map (but they lost). Israel did gain some territory, mainly near Jerusalem from whence Arabs attacked Jewish communities. The Etzion Block in the West Bank was already full of Jewish communities who LEGALLY PURCHASED their land, land that was then stolen by Arabs.
That was in 1948. In 1967 Israel regained this land back. It's like the American Indians gaining back
their land.
Now, it seems you can hurl accusations against Israel, repeating ISM canards (nefarious
stealing of land?) but you have no history to back these accusations up. Jewish communities in Yesha are built solely on Jordanian state land. no private Arab property was used unless bought and paid for.
YOu ask what would I do today? One, I would get rid of the PLO and Hamas leadership whose propaganda you love to accept and disseminate. I would de-Nazify the West Bank and Gaza much as we did in Germany after WW2. IF a Palestinian state were to exist, it must be de-militarized and its government must arrest and incarcerate terrorists, not reward them with pensions as the current one does. YOu fail to comprehend what a hell hole the Pals leadership makes for its own people that needs to be addressed rather than blaming Israel.
The lies about stolen land, atrocities, etc are designed to appeal to the ignorant. You clearly haven't read the Hamas Charter as I suggested. You are not advocating peace but the replacement of Israel by Palestine.
This will never happen, Maggie.
I'm not surprised you won't post links to my sites. Contrary to a snide remark that they would be the twilight zone, you fear they will refute the endless propaganda from sites you already link to. Maggie,how do you feel about the misogyny and homophobia in the Arab world you are so willing to propagandize for? WOuld you like to live under Shariah Law? That is what the PA constitution mandates in lieu of a democratic government as found in Israel.
Tell you what: send me your accusations and let me see if they have any merit. Anyone can create a blog. Let's see if you have the capacity to learn.
By the way, Penny, I see a virulent hatred in your writing but no clear facts, just rhetoric. Did a Jew ever do anything to you?
You know Lee,
There really isn't alot of point talking to you.
You hurl accusations at everyone - yet refuse to answer our simple questions. Keep in mind you are the guest here at this blog and have been dealt with civily.
Sadly, you won't return the favour.
We have asked you point blank: What do you, Lee, propose as the solution to the problem? One state solution? Democracy and equal rights for all? Two State solution? Palestinians allowed complete soveriegnty and all that entails - on what land? Return of lands stolen since the 67 Occupation?
Define a starting point for debate. We are not going back 5,000 years, the land itself was occupied my many different humans - all really brothers and sisters except to those who will divide humanity due to greed. So, Lee - let's deal with things NOW.
Let's set parameters to the debate. If you cannot stay within them - and continually try to change the topic, mislead, adhominen and such then I'll just let this all die and we can go on our merry way.
If you really consider yourself part of the solution in a positive sense, then join in within the established parameters.
Asking that a soveriegn Palestinian state not be allowed to be militarised is ridiculous.
It seems you are advocating that the Palestinians can have a sort of 'enclave' government - so long as the uberlord Israel permits.
All soveriegn states have the right to a military to defend themselves against aggressors. I happen to believe in the soveriegnty of nations - all nations. I am not a globalist. An internationalist perhaps, but certainly not a 'globalist'.
No, Lee - if Palestine is to attain her soveriegnty it comes with her own military, her own ability to defend herself - all decisions are hers - not Israel's.
That is a country, that is a soveriegn state.
So, deary, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Which IMO international law upholds.
btw lee, you are nonsensical.
I presented you with factual information, I presented you with a link to a documentary chock full of maps of Palestine, and history.
And all you come up with is name calling and ad hominen attacks?
You see a virulent hatred?
Of course you do, you are chock full of it! It seeps from your very presence on this blog. It oozes between your words, It clouds your mind from rational thoughts.
I don't hate anyone. Why would I?
I don't believe in God.
I don't believe God, gives Land to anyone.
I don't believe god has any chosen ones.
So I don't need to use God to justify any actions.
I don't believe that any other human is lesser then or greater then I.
I believe we all came out of Africa, and are all part of a big human family.
You clearly do not have any of my beliefs, hence your ad hominem attacks, repeated name calling and nothing of any substance.
Did you watch the documentary?
You mention Balfour, which was a private letter, despite how the zionists touted it, it was not a government act.
What about the White papers?
The British government did accept these recommendations and the Zionists reacted with rage, violent protests ensued.
May 17, 1930: Jewish Immigration Restriction Decree
The British government announced the restriction of Jewish immigration to Palestine, which resulted in Jewish protest strikes against the policy.
There were in fact four white papers in 1930
"Four white papers issued in 1930 tried to defuse the conflict. The Shaw Commission of Inquiry (Command 3530, 30 March 1930) found that Jewish immigration and land purchases were immediate causes of "the Arab feeling of disappointment of their political and national aspirations and fear for their economic future,"
then the one in May, then another one
, followed immediately by another one
"Sir John Hope-Simpson's report, dated 30 August 1930 (Command 3686), was published simultaneously with the Passfield White Paper (Command 3692) of 21 October 1930. Hope-Simpson recommended a drastic reduction in the volume of Jewish immigration because of insufficient cultivable Palestinian land and widespread Palestinian unemployment. He criticized the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist Organization's land-purchasing agency, for forbidding Jews from reselling land to Arabs and banning Arab laborers on Jewish farms. The white paper concurred that stricter controls should be placed on Jewish immigration and land purchase, and asserted - for the first time - that the British government had obligations "of equal weight" to both communities and that it must renew the effort to establish the legislative council proposed in 1922"
Now these papers were right from the government. The Balfour letter, was just that, a private letter and nothing more.
Just the facts Lee, can you handle the truth?
What you will now do?
I am certain you will engage in adhominen attacks and name calling,
Cause it is all you got!
Me, I have wasted all the time I have to give to a poisoned mind.
Well, goodness me..
Well said Penny.
There is little point in talking to this individual.
He will not accept himself as part of the human experience, he sees himself as apart.
Sad,
Oh well - we tried.
Lee! I cracked a fart in your honour! Self impressed git.
Funny--
On one note you state that history has no bearing on the issue, then purport to cite Palestinian "history".
Ok, so let's just say we have the problem here today. What to do about the Israeli-Palestinian problem?
You asked me what I would do and I told you yet you then say I refused to answer the question.
I said a Palestinian state is a viable option ONLY if it is de-militarized and de-nazified.
Now, you say a Palestinian state must immediately be militarized
(the military being composed of PLO terrorists and/or Hamas terrorists who you claim you do not support). The PA constitution mandates Shariah Law, a totalitarian way of life currently.
So what is the problem with creating a Palestinian state sans an army for say, ten years? And why would you, as women, not want a democratic government. Surely you know the current PA government
promotes martyrdom to kill Jews and other Israelis. You can falsely claim that PA TV is "mistranslated" (I bet you don't speak Arabic). You can attack me personally (Note nobody's remark about hurling feces again at me, a less tham mature debate response but one you gleefully post).
Then, when you cannot answer my questions, or have no intelligent answers, you say you think it's a bad idea to post what I say.
OK, Maggie--the ball's in your court. Tell me since you believe in a 2 state solution-something the Palestinians say they do not want (particularly the Hamas)in lieu of destroying and taking over all of Israel to make it an Arab or Muslim dominated state, what you envision as a successful outcome for peace? Let's say the Israelis deport every Jew, all 300,000 from Yesha and East Jerusalem, they all go inside the green line like when Israel deported all her Jews from Gaza.
And let's say the PA is allowed to retain its terror groups as an army
as you advocate. And let's say Shariah Law remains the law of the land.
What do you think will happen next?
Will the Arabs stop bothering the Jews inside Israel? Will terrorism against them stop? If Arabs from the PA attack Jews in Israel inside the green line, will this new sovereign PA then arrest them?
Will they run on TV exhortations to keep peace with Israelis?
You tell me what you think will happen. But pretend you are a Jewish mother like the ones in Sderot who you claim have no threat to their children from harmless Kassem rockets. Will the Palis shoot rockets at Israelis from the West Bank then?
I thought you should read these comments from Yelena Bonner at the Nobel Institute about the current
two state solution:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131510
Lee, what you fail to realise is a soveriegn state has the inalienable right to defend itself - hence if Palestine achieves her statehood - no one can tell her not to have her own military.
You speak of this 'armed force' as being made up of terrorists - sort of like the beginning of the IDF being made up of terrorist huh? recall the Irgun, Stern etc.
What you mean by 'de-nazify' is lost on me. I have trouble with nazi references - they are old and overused. Like crying wolf all the time. So, to de-nazify - what does this mean? Sort of a minority report thing? Can Israel be de-nazified too then? You know folk like Lieberman and his racist biggotted ilk?? Hmmmm is what is good for the goose not also good for the gander?
As I have said, for years I was in favour of the two state solution, based on the withdrawl to the green line and return and compensation for those whose property was taken. This follows all international laws on the topic, but sadly Israel ignores the law - she behaves as though she is above it - and with Sugar Daddy US she pretty much is.
No, I'm sad to say that a two state solution is probably way past its best before date. The 'facts on the ground' after the call to 'run and take every hilltop' has shattered any hope of that.
So, we're left with a one state solution, in which Israel will have to give up her theocratic desires of being a 'Jewish' state and settle for being a 'Human' state. Perhaps an arrangement like the First Nations have here in Canada (or a better one) in which all those of non-jewish decent are allowed equal rights under the law, for everything.
Then Israel could really be a true democracy. For ALL her people regardless of ethnicity. The way it should always have been.
Time to toss the racists and bigots out on their asses, Lee. Time for the radicalised Jews in Israel to join the Human family, time for the radicalised Muslims and Christians to do the same.
It will take generations to repair the hate and heal the damage wrought by successive Israeli Administration. It will take time for Israel her mend her soul and learn to behave in a humane fashion to her nieghbours.
So, as I have said to you before - we will have to agree to disagree.
And it sure would be nice if you'd stop putting words in my mouth.
Maggie:
Lee is good at putting words in everyones mouth, he speaks for everyone.
Oddly enough they all say exactly what Lee wants everyone to hear?
Coincidence? I think not!
yeah, I don't know why I bothered even commenting back.
As I have said he is not an honest broker.
As far as his whining that I won't put up his links, well I have a little more faith in folk than he does. People can look for themselves at alternating viewpoints.
Anyway I sure doubt that he will link to say, Norman's site on his own 'blog'.
Gosh I can see the caniption fit upon even mentioning the uberselfhater's name!!
Self-haters unite!!!!!
Maggie-
Apparently you could not deal with honest debate so insult me and accuse me of hate then censor posts.
Contrary to my not being "an honest broker" what have I done beyond prove the fallacy of your anti-Israel
promotion and support for anti-Semites and terrorist supporters you claim to abhor.
About your links: Urukunet is the Ba'athn Party in Europe. Under Saddam Hussein they murdered millions of Arabs. The film Peace Propaganda and the Promised Land is replete with falsehoods such as claims that there are Jew only roads in the PA and that Jews stole Arab's homes in 1948. The "Jewish" links you have are pro-Hamas groups of Marxist Jews who claim they support Israel but in fact meet with and support Saudi sponsored anti-Israel groups like the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. Jewish Voice for Peace claims to support Israel then marches next to those who call for Israel's destruction at ANSWER rallies. Apparently groupthink is what you like, because when confronted with salient facts and questions on your positions you begin to accuse me of "no faith" and then censor me.
You know something? The nice thing is that people like you and your groupthink anti-Israel friends will not succeed ind destroying Israel. The sad thing is you roil the conflict so there never can be a settlement and two states side by side in peace. Sad, that.
I'd like to know also your definition of civility since
all I've done is ask questions and provide documentation and you have posted repeated comments about hurling feces at me in lieu of intelligent discussion. Like I said, let's see if you print this.
Lee, I've never censored a post - YOU ARE A BALD FACED LIAR.
Yes that was me yelling.
You misdirect, slander and lie. You are not an honest person. I have now had quite enough of trying to be civil to you.
So, you can now kindly ____ off.
Oh and by the way - anti-Israel I am not. Anti-ASSHOLE I certainly am.
Hence that's it for me being nice.
Go screw yourself Lee.
One last thing, Lee:
Show me where I have censored any of your diatribes here...
Oh you can't cuz I haven't. You are so full of shit Lee, that No One needs send you any.
That's it. Enough of wasting time and energy on a big lying propogandist. Why don't you just make aliyah already, you'd fit in well with the rest of the extremists over there. Perhaps you can join Lieberman's party.
Aufwiedersehen Liebling.
Maggie-
What a pity though I'm not surprised. You try to claim someone was not nice to you or reasonable in debating here. LEt's face it, you support terrorists and murderers and your accusations of my being a propagandist have no validity. His is the tactic of the Arabs and their anarchist/communist/anti-Semitic supporters who engage in genuine proaganda: they accuse Israel of what they know they themselves do to smear Israel. Hence, human shields for terrorists become "Peace activists" and you can censor my comments here by cutting me off because I ask probing questions that prove the lie of oour support for the PLO.
Rest assured, you and your creepy friends that think they do good by suppoprting terrorists will never succeed.You link to some of the worst terror supporters and totalitarian regimes in your blog--nothng to be proud of. The Stop the ISM site will be back up again this week. So you can follow things there.
moncler
nmd
louboutin shoes
hermes
fila
lebron james shoes
cheap jordans
converse shoes
nike air max 270
cheap nba jerseys
Post a Comment